Hello again harissa
Looking at the benefit info that I have, it seems that under the new system (everyone on Income Support is changing to this by the way...it's designed so that it is easier to move into work ie the Child Tax Credit stays the same and the adult in the situation is the only one who has to change between Income Support and wages/Working Tax Credit) anyway under the new system my information says that you are entitled to £60.50 Income Support a week and your child to Child Tax Credit of £545 per annum family premium and £2085 per annum child premium ie an annual total of £2,630 or £50.57 a week. Add this £50.57 to your own weekly entitlement of £60.50 and you get a total of £111.07 ie more or less what you were getting before (the tables that I work from are sometimes a couple of pence out)
So it sounds as if your ENTITLEMENT overall won't change, it is them messing up the changeover. I expect you didn't get any adult Income Support last week as you had been overpaid by slightly more than this amount the week before. But, as you say. how can you budget when this is happening? On Income Support. people don't just have the odd £50 kicking around to tide them over while the Benefits Agency gets sorted.
Hope these figures help as you prepare to do battle :x
Take care
Louise
I know, it is unbelievable, Harissa. I remember some years ago going round the charity shops and there weren't any trousers in my son's size (he was 3) and I bought trousers for 6-7 year olds and hemmed them but he looked ridiculous cos the "body" bit was too long, so I couldn't win.
I realise I go on about this a lot but hopefully this information will benefit other people reading this. If anyone gets refused by the Social Fund for essentials, there are local charities that will help. I know you have had some help from the Lions Club in the past and your local Citizen's Advice Bureau will have a directory of grant-making bodies. It would be fantastic if every family below a certain income level got issued with shoe vouchers. I don't know if your local council help out with school uniform but some give vouchers for those.
Louise ;)
Those 0845 numbers for benefits are disgraceful! When they stopped my IS before Christmas I was holding the line for ages! What I found a bit sad was that I went to my local office (where I worked many moons ago, so know some of the staff), and they have to use the same number to get through!
Way to go, harissa, I am glad you are getting somewhere! Sometimes it can feel like hitting your head against a brick wall.
The £1.81 you mention is the difference (approx!) between the £48.73 you think you have been told your son will be awarded and the £50.57(approx!) I think my information says he is entitled to. My suggestion is to ask for a letter confirming exact weekly amounts and how this is calculated. As I mentioned, the IS for you is calculated on a weekly basis and the Child Tax Credit annually. It may be that rather than dividing the annual amount by 52, they are dividing the annual amount by 365 and multiplying it by the number of days remaining in the benefit year (see how they blind us with science!)
It still sounds very frustrating......and as if they don't realise how important that £1.81 could be.
Louise :?
A quick note on 0845. Even the benefits office lady was convinced they are free with BT. Be warned, they are NOT - unless you subscribe to their anytime package.
BT site quote:
"Calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are now free with BT^ depending on your Calling Plan (free at the weekends with the Unlimited Weekend Plan; during the evening and at the weekend with the Unlimited Evening and Weekend Plan and anytime with the Unlimited Anytime Plan)."
So for most people 0845 is only free outside of office hours. Fat lot of use eh?
Quite!
I have a result!
The job centre were as good as their word and contacted Cosham. The Income Support Office then actioned an income support payment of £60.50 to my bank account and, voila, it is there!
BUT I still cannot make £60.50 (income support) plus £48.73 (child tax credit) add up to £111.04 which is what I had been getting before the change over.
It only adds up to £109.23 which is £1.81 LESS
However, at this moment in time, I have actually been overpaid and have notified the office of that fact and the precise amount. Tomorrow I shall have to contact the child tax credit people, presumably, to find out what their game is.
I don't mind paying back the surplus now, I just want to be confident that £111.04 will be my guaranteed weekly income, not a selection of wrong random payments and corrections.
I'm gald you're almost sorted with this.
Oh no....
I think its normal practice that they pay in arrears.
I'm not looking forward to all this starting with me...
Oh harissa how stressful! They just seem to be issuing payments randomly, which is no good when you have such a tight budget and need to know exactly what and when. Do you feel up to giving them a call?
If this goes on, you can ask Social Services (NOT the Benefits Agency) for an emergency payment. Some authorities pay these in kind or in vouchers. I know that's not the point, the point is that you want what you're entitled to and you want it paid on time!!! Just thinking of practicalities......
Louise :x on your behalf
I don't "know" the answer to that one harissa but I am 90% thinking that they can't...they would need a Direct Debit mandate surely? However, what they can do is to reduce future payments to recover previous overpayments, but they are not permitted to cause actual hardship by doing this. How the "hardship" is defined is one of those "how long is a a piece of string?" questions.
I am glad you got your IS anyway :)
Louise
That's absolutely astounding harissa! :o You are right; the Child Benefit rate for the only or eldest child went up to £20 in January. However I am really struggling with the Maths for this one (don't forget my benefits guide book is sometimes 2p or 3p out)
Old system:
You receive IS £60.50 for you, £52.59 for your son, Family premium £16.75. Total £129.84 less CB £18.80= £111.04. That is exactly what you were receiving,and you and I understand that pefectly.
New system:
You SHOULD receive £60.50 IS for you, £50.57 Child Tax Credit for your son.Total SHOULD be £111.07 ie more or less the same. So if they are knocking off £20 then you should be receiving £91.07. Plus your CB of course. IN THEORY. :roll: Are you now getting CB separately?
Talk about blinding us with science!!!!!! But what you have spotted is that they no longer have the rule of thumb about "what you are expected to live on" as after April 2004, all new Income Support claims haven't used the amount for children or the family premium, they have automatically done the Child Tax Credit system you have now been transferred to.
I remember a few years ago I used to get some extra tax allowance in my pay packet for having care of the kids. This was replaced by Working Families Tax Credit and I lost out, too! I did not understand how anyone could be fooled by the assurances that it was the same money. I loathe the way that these things are brought in via the "back door".
There is a very strong argument that CB should be means tested. Another idea would be to scrap it altogether and increase the amounts for CTC so that richer people wouldn't get it (although already, families earning up to £50k a year can get over £10 CTC a week so maybe the threshold needs to be brought down so that there is more money in the pot for lower income families)
Take care
Louise :)
Hi Harissa
I have been away for a week and just catching up with the messages on the board. It all sounds so confusing, I agree that for people that don't keep a close eye on all these benefit payments, just get taken for a ride. :?
Recently they put a lump sum of £1,450 into my account, I called them saying I was absolutely sure i wasn't entitled to it and that I wanted to give it back, i was told to open a new account and put it in there and come April when the tax year ends, I can give it back then. Thanks a lot! Every time I go to internet banking I see the measly amount in my current account and then £1450 in another, I should charge them interest for holding it!!!
Have you been to this site? http://www.taxcc.org/ Tax Credit Casualties (TCC), was founded in January 2005 in response to the shambles of Child and Working Tax Credits, and the overpayment bills blighting peoples lives. This website aims to bring all the issues and information you might need together in one place, in as logical and simple a way as possible.
Its worth having a look around.
On the point of whether they can just take money out of your account, I don't know the right answer, but if it is any help, many years ago I was being chased for Poll Tax that I didn't owe because i was living at my parents and at college. I wrote to them with all the details and information they required. 4 years later living 120 miles away they turned up on my doorstep, luckily I still had a copy of the original letter with dates etc. and I though that was the end of it. 2 years after that, I had moved again and I received another letter demanding money. I wrote to them and then rang the offices only to be told that they had no records on my name or file. Hooray I thought, it is definitely now all over. Then when I claimed income support when I had my daughter they started taking £20 a month directly from my bank account. Sadly I was going through too much at the time to question it or deal with it, I just thought let them have it, everyone else seemed to just take from me.
Ooh I went on a bit there!! I was trying to answer your question about whether benefits agencies can take money directly out of your bank account, but the only people that can give you the right answer would be the Citizens Advice Bureau or Welfare Rights.
Good Luck and let us know if you find out anything :)
Glad to be of service Harissa!! :D
Good for you for taking back control of your work situation. You need to look after yourself before you can do anything, I am really glad to hear that you have decided to take a break from job hunting and recuperate.
Oh harissa, what a horrible situation for you. So the Welfare rights person said there was nothing you could do? I am disgusted that the Job Centre appears to have made no accommodation for your hearing impairment. If you felt you had the energy I would think this is a matter for your local MP or even the newspaper, as they have a legal obligation to provide inclusive services.
Re the stealing, I think a lot of people are feeling very scared right now and, unfortunately, it seems that this recession will almost inevitably cause a rise in crime- not that I am endorsing their actions of course
Take care
Louise ;)
I'm really sorry that this hasn't been resolved.
So much for getting children out of poverty.
I have to say we're struggling at the mo, but Scottish Power put my monthly DD up 50% even though I was in credit, and won't lower it.
I don't know what the answer is. Have you spoken to your GP about DLA? Not being nosey - honest - just incase...
Sneaky so-and-sos! I didn't know they were basically the same company!
The volunteering 'post' I had came to an end, as they felt that volunteers were too expensive (did have travel expenses). It was in supported housing, the group that helped me when I was homeless. I was really disappointed. I help out with reading at the school now.
I figure I'm pretty much stuck at the mo. Need to rebuild a bit of confidence before starting on the driving instructor route again. Although a career development loan will be my only option. Will have to build up my credit rating!
Take care Harissa. I hope you're enjoying the volunteer work. I feel a bit of adult company can make the day so much brighter.
Hi
I hate writing this as I sound money grabbing.
Checked bank today and IS has gone down by over £4 - weekly payment. I didn't expect it to drop.
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this?
I phoned - and didn't cry!!
It's only for this week, as other benefits have gone up before the IS.
Sorry for the post - but it did help calm me down.
Hi sparklinglime
£4 is a lot of money to have taken off you, I understand your distress, I am glad that you took the bull by the horns and contacted them and found out exactly what they were up to.
It is SO stressful having people giving and taking, we are completely at their mercy for whatever mistakes they make. Tut :roll:
Hi Harissa
You are not the only one to tear their hair out about these forms: I have known many perfectly intelligent, sensible people reduced to a gibbering wreck by these demands. I feel very angry :x when I see the effect that these can have on people.
Is this a form called Tax Credit Annual Review, with a Tax Credit renewal pack? You have got a few choices here: the Citizen's Advice Bureau can help you fill it in or you could look on our Homepage at the Advice Finder feature and see who else is available in your area, or have you a friend who is a bit of a whizz at forms?
Even if you decide to do it yourself, fear not ;) . The pack looks MUCH worse than it actually is. You do not have to declare Income Support unless it is taxable (that would only happen where someone was claiming it becasue they were on strike from work) All you have to do is to check the personal details on the white review form are correct (on page 2) On page 3 it gives you a step by step plan of what to do in various circumstances. Feel free to ring their Helpline as well if you don't understand these. On that page 3 it tells you the things you need to phone them to tell them. the thick booklet (which is called Tax Credits Renewal pack) is a series of notes to "help" you through any income calculations you are making or any deductions your are claiming for pensions etc. so it sounds as if it is not relevant in your circumstances.
if it is NOT the Renewal Pack but a claim from scratch then I would get some help if it is too daunting.....if neccessary via the local Benefits Office. And you could check with the Helpline about where you declare your Income Support, if at all, as I don't know the answer to this. I know you do not qualify for DLA but is there a disability support service locally? They are ace at form-filling.
Louise :?
Hi harissa
Yikes its all happening for you. I hope Louise's information about the forms allays your fears.
Unfortunately we do not have any benefits advisors here at Single Parent Action Network, however Gingerbread do have a helpline 0800 018 5026 where you can get information and support from a trained welfare advisor.
Let us know how you get on, I hope you will find them beneficial. Best of Luck :P
What a time you're having harissa. A worrying time with your daughter too.
I find it all so tiring.
I think things worked better with benefits when they were run locally. Problems could be sorted as they arose with giros raised there and then when needed, and none of this stupid "we'll phone you back within 48 hours". I worked in the local office when it was still the DHSS. I used to deal with NI contributions. The staff were compassionate and caring, both with the supplementary benefit (yes, it is going back a bit!!) and with sickness benefit. All sorted and paid from the office.
So many cutbacks within the Civil Service are the cause for so much heartache, and offices short-staffed so can't be efficient. When they stopped my benefit at Christmas without warning, it knocked me for six. You feel your getting somewhere and then WHAM something so trivial sent me reeling!
Sorry for going on!
I would love to see some sort of action taken to localise things again.
That sounds so sensible, sparkling lime, that it is bound NOT to happen :?
it would be great if there could be a local workshop, harissa, sadly it is often down to funding. One of the main issues I hear about re Tax Credits is that every time something changes or "happens" on a person's claim, they get a new white assessment notice issued. A friend of mine changed her job and childcare arrangements, went on holiday and when she returned there were ELEVEN assessment notices in separate packs on her doormat! I believe the secret to coping with this is to realise that the most recently-dated one is the one that counts.
re the Citizen's Advice, you would have thought that one of the first things a Government would do in a recession is to set support systems in place, relying on existing expertise and giving them sufficient funding to get extra staff. Oh no, another sensible idea!!!! :roll:
Hi Harissa
I will have a rootle around as so what the right amounts should be, ;) and come back on the boards later
Louise