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Its funny but if you look back to when you and your ex first got together, all the signs of what haven't worked for you were there, but we chose to ignore them.
Did he/she ever go into a little sulk because you disagreed with him/her? Or did you see him/her looking at other men/women and it made you feel uncomfortable? Perhaps he/she tried to make us feel sorry for him/she told us tales of woe about a previous relationship? Or he/she seemed to spend hours on their computer, but we believed it was because 'their work was important'?
Have a think, do you remember the first time you ignored something that your ex did in the early days that then became a much bigger problem later on?
I look forward to hearing if we really do recognise things and then ignore them because we want the relationship.
i remember one ex-partner who, early in our relationship when I had to have an operation and he was supposed to be looking after me overnight, suddenly could not because he had tickets to his football team's Euro game.
I should have realised that he would be unreliable and selfish for the next three years!
My ex and I met through a badminton club. We were members there for a long time.
Two years after we were married, he changed clubs - and didn't tell me, just got changed grabbed his bag and said he'd moved to this club to partner XXX.
There was no discussion, no saying he was bored at our club (with who I considered to be 'our' friends and 'our' social life really) and he never asked me to go too.
The club was shocked. When there was a match, I was chatting with XXX, his partner - we'd always got on. She was sitting on a hand towel, next thing The Git walked back into the sports hall and sat on one side of this hand towel and started talking with her - no acknowledgement of me at all! After that, the rest of the club were watching his games and heckled him.
Clearly they could see something I couldn't. He went on to have other lady friends too... It was ok though, he said, as he never slept with them!! ;-D
I have to say that when I was married, I would have said that 14 of the 20 years were good. However, I can now see that this is the point I should have left, after two years. No children and a really good accounting job...
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing.
Isn't it just sparkling!
My ex used to really have a pop at his mum sometimes. When we were first together I was young and completely sided with him, thinking his mum was really out of order. Two years into the relationship he started on me. If only I had thought to myself then, if he can treat his mum like that then he can treat anyone like that.
Oh I am so much older and wiser!!
Actually thinking through my ex's I do notice that all of them showed their obvious faults at the beginning. One chap I was seeing had his own record label (oooh!) he was SOO busy that I used to cook for him, get in the wine he liked (I was living on benefits at the time and he never contributed) and often ironed his shirts for meetings (ugh!). He often had to go and see gigs but a few times he forgot(?) to tell me and not turn up for a date that we had arranged. Anyway he got a really important meeting in America which was really exciting and I helped him pack and organise everything. He only met someone out there and never came back!!! He didn't even bother to tell me! Ha ha, what a plonk I was! What an even bigger plonk he is!!!
Can you think of any more?
When me and my ex first got together, he told me that he got jealous easily. I should have been warned then, as for the next four and a half years I was subjected to constant accusations of infidelity. I never cheated, and as far as I was aware never gave him any real reason to suspect so. Though he couldn't handle it when I went out with friends or even my sister, suspecting that I would be up to no good. Every time I did something without him, we had a huge row about this. In the end I stopped going out with friends on my own as it was just easier. Now I look back and can't believe I put up with his controlling behaviour for so long. And I'm glad that my friends were able to see what was going on, and hung in there for me. I shall be wary of 'jealous' men from now on.
Sounds like a lesson well-learned, Frazzled. It's great that you still have your friends around you.
If we are in a controlling relationship, we can begin to associate control with love and it is good that you recognised what was going on and broke free
Isn't it a shame that we don't hear a little trumpet fanfare when the first warning signs happen? or what else could alert us?
Interesting frazzled, isn't it bizarre!
Louise you ask what else could alert us to the warning signs, I think that we need to listen to ourselves more, because from the above comments we all saw the first signs, but we chose 'being in love' or being in a relationship as more important than how that person made us feel.
I am not sure if I have already added this to the boards, but I have a new saying, 'It is not how much you love someone, it is how that someone makes you feel!'
Very apt for this discussion, because I am sure we have all had that 'ugh, I'm not sure I like that' feeling. Haven't we?
Hmmm,
if we take flight at the first sign of incompatibility - relationships would really be short and superficial. I guess if something comes up time after time that is hard to live with then maybe it is time to end it.
Sometimes the uncertain pain of ending is worse to contemplate than living and working with what you know. So we carry on.
I still think that teaching relationship skills at school would be good. I have found the periodic table completely useless in my life. Discovering which relationships are good for you would have been much more useful at 15.
sy
I agree that some lessons in relationship skills might have useful when I was at school too Sadsy. Especially as I was very naive when I met my ex. I think that was part of the problem. Though I also agree with you Anna that we should trust our instincts more. My instincts were screaming for me to get out way before I actually did, because I didn't want to be alone. I now think it's better to be alone but happy, than to be with someone who makes you unhappy. Relationships should make us feel good about ourselves, and if they don't, then it's not a good relationship.
Hear, hear Frazzled. The first task in hand is to reach that happiness with ourselves!
I agree about relationship skills, sadsy. So many of us only see what our parents "model" to us and what we see in the media. Teaching us what constitutes a good relationship would be useful. Obviously what makes one person happy is not neccessarily good for another person but some idea of what "love" means would help. People are often quick to say "I love you" and then show by actions that they do not.
Following on from this, it is great if we as parents can teach our children about relationships. Many of us on here have had unhappy experiences so maybe we can't "model" this, so much as talk about it and explore it with our children?
I think first and foremost, we need to learn how to be happy on our own. As a young person we seem desperate to get into a relationship as if without a partner we are untouchable in some way. It seems to boost our self esteem. Unfortunatley this means that we put up with all sorts of bad behaviour.
If we believed in ourselves and trusted ourselves, recognised that we are not a leper if we don't have a boy/girlfriend, then we are far more likely to have satisfying relationships.
I agree we should be taught this in school!
I recently read that saying 'I love you' regularly in a relationship is very beneficial, but even more than that saying 'Thank you' really cements trust and respect. MMmmm I think I tend to agree.
.....especially if we are specific for what we are saying thank you for. I think this works with our children as well. "Being good" is such a general term, great if we can say "Thank you for playing so quietly while I was talking on the phone" or "Thank you for tldying your room". Actually, I said in my last post that we might not be able to model a good relationship and that might be true about a relationship between parents, but by being loving and respectful to and with our children that does give them a role model after all
Good point Louise. I agree!
I should have realised when she kept asking for money and getting me to drive her to her dealer.
Dammn!
It all seems so clear to me now.
:D
I'm so glad I didn't have a mouth full of sparkling water when I read that!!
First date she was rude to a waitress and stormed out of the resturant and left me to sort out the bill. Should of gone home, but followed her to the cinema, where we bought tickets to see "Husbands and Wives" Woody Allen's prophetic film about divorce. My god did I need any clearer signs than that!
Spent the next 18 years cringing when in company, as she could be so curt at times.
I need a time machine and a good talking to my younger self.
Cest la vie
Think we'd all like a time machine paul. Wouldn't that be lovely, but then again, I don't think I could actually sleep with C's sperm doner ever again, so then I'd have no C. Uhmmm, could put bag over his head I guess, hehe
I think about it all sometimes, when I think back about everything, stuff I could have done differently maybe, but really, I wouldn't change getting involved with my X it would be like wishing away my children. Sure I could have had children with someone else, more stable maybe but then I wouldn't have the children I love now.
My daughter just interrupted me with some words of wisdom, she said you know on Tuesday, well I think we should get to choose something because it has the word choose in it.
..mind you I suppose I'd love any children I had who ever they were, but the thought of the two I have now not existing makes me sad.
But then that just makes me think of all the other children I could have had and loved with all the other girlfriends I've had in the past.
: )
Your daughter is a bright spark Bubblegum. Tell her she can have a fry up on Fridays then!!
....but that she has to be SAT still every Saturday, lol.
I don't know if I would do anything differently and certainly wouldn't wish my two lovely sons any different but I wish at 20 I had known the things I now know at 50 so I might have been more focused and not wasted so much time and energy on inadequate relationships.
Shame there isn't a 'just do as I ask and stop questioning everything I say say' day.. :)
Yep, I could do with one of those days 
I think i had the most obvious warning that my ex was going to be a pain , he hated all his ex girlfriends , we live in a small town so alot of people know him , i never understood why he was so rude about all his exs , surley it was not all thier fault they broke up lol.
Well i learnt he will not and never will accept any responsiblity for anything , u know its everyone easles fault , not mine.
One thing I have noticed is that in a new relationship, a person will often "sound off" about a former partner eg. "She said I was a control freak" or "She never trusted me".....and guess what? Months down the line you realise they are indeed a control freak/not to be trusted. Moral of the tale? Take heed of what their exes have said about them! 
With my ex, it was a case of me doing all the work in the relationship. I was as much his mother as I was our daughter's, which is in no way healthy in my opinion.
I made excuses to my (& his!) friends and family for his behaviour, I cajoled, I begged & in the end I nagged...it was only when I'd made myself totally miserable & heard myself say 'I have to make this relationship work' to a friend one day that I took a step back & thought 'Hang on...surely there should be a 'we' working at our relationship?!'
I agree with an earlier poster, hindsight is a marvellous thing. But I'm also a firm believer in making mistakes so that we can learn from them for next time. That's the theory, any way
My son has a very self-righteous saying, which is "It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it" This may be true, but it is in fact his way of trying to get out of being told off, lol.
Doing all the work in a relationship: in my favourite book "Are you the one for me", the author suggests that if you suspect that this is the case, you experiment by stopping doing it for a short while. If the other person springs into action then that's Ok and you can get a bit more give and take going. If they don't, then beware!
Hello All
My mother in law told me not to marry her daughter because she was a lazy cow and never wants to work, i should of listened lol. Even on my wedding day she asked me was i sure i wanted to marry her daughter as she wasent willing to do a days graft in her life.
What a wise woman wish i had liestened and we are still close mother in law an me.They live round the corner and are there for the grandchildren.
My X used to mention that all her ex's no longer spoke to her and that their families all hated her.
^^
Same here to bubble gum none of my exs ex speak to her or there familes like her.
They see her as a leetch that hangs on and sucks life out of people, and people who she dident like are now friends because the people who know her dont want to know her anymore.
Sad really and shallow if you ask me.
I'd be lost without my in-laws, as I call them... (ex-father-in-law and ex-step-mother-in-law is far too much of a mouthfull and takes too long to type!!)
... It's a funny question/idea.
But yes all the warning signs were there and I was well and truelly aware of them and wouldn't say I ignored them but persevered them.
controlling - wouldn't let me go to the toilet when we were at a club - somehow I went... was just so silly.
jealous - made up two counts of me cheating on him with two different guys. even today not sure what he believes.
violent - his father was to his mother and him and his brothers and sisters... so it's always been there and is always a matter of him fighting really hard not to be his father. saying that, my grandmother left my grandfather because he was violent.
and his mother... I was trying to work out where he was or maybe he'd just gone somewhere but she got the chance to tell me she couldn't understand how I could tolerate him. not in those words,... I forget now... but I was more shocked that she could say that about her son than at what she'd said.
the funnier thing? my serious boyfriends in the past have been practically angels... one in particular but I just really messed it up... my head not right... So i always look at their dad as being my equal, for all his short comings, I have my own.
and, finally, I went into the kids thing eyes open. I'd reached a point in my life where I wanted kids. I wanted kids in my life more than any relationship with any man. My mum raised me on my own. It's not the worst thing in the world - not by a long shot.
That we've finally split up... well we're nearing 6 months later, and I have our new routine. and I love it. Sure I miss their dad a bit and yes sometimes it's difficult, but together there were other difficulties - neither way is better but I'm happier this way. I just wish their father could sort his finances out and a place to live that;s not my mothers :)
It's good when you can look back and see that things are going ok...
Plus one to that sparklinglime : )
In response to Anna's initial question… I can remember the first time she exploded and attacked me, we were sat in a car and she was bemoaning her support workers and I suggested that maybe it was partly her behaviour as well and she went mental and started flailing at me across the car.
Apart from that it happens in little increments, at first she was perfectly 'normal' just bit by bit she started getting sulky and moody and slowly I wasn't allowed to do things until it just became the norm.
She once went through my phone and txt every girl on there accusing them of trying to steal me and giving them abuse.
I can't remember the first time I ignored something, like I said, it happened slowly over time, bit by bit until I found myself doing everything to try and minimise the trouble.
I don't think I'd let it happen again.
Hope not anyway.
Blimey you were up early bubblegum, are you ok?
Do you remember your thoughts that first time your ex went mental? Did you make mental note to self, to never suggest she might be at fault again? Did you think 'poor thing, that really hit a nerve, she must be really upset'? Or did you blame yourself and think that perhaps you were a bit out of order saying what you said?
I used to think that the abuse that I was on the recieving end of was because I was a decent person, with very little hate, aggression or anger in my body, so when I saw others getting upset, I would feel sorry for them and their obvious pain and disenchantment with life. I was told later that I had 'victim mentality' - ugh, I hate that word and I would not have it! But now many years later, I see that my kind, generous, honest ways were absolutely perfect for an abusive person, as I would never throw the blame back onto them, I would suck it up!
So, now I have learnt and probably always will be learning, to trust my instincts, to not try and look deeper into someones behaviour, if I don't like it, then get the hell away!
If we can recognise our mistakes we are 3/4 of the way to having a safer relationship next time. 
Last week I was clambering through fields with my kids and we came to gate in a hedge that used to be open... but no more. So I had to climb over it 'a la seventeen year old', and then help my kids over and in the process, what with my age and all that, I pulled something in my hip and it seems to have gotten worse.
So I keep waking up really early and not being able to get comfortable and back to sleep.
So I gave up.
With the X thing, I'm afraid I thought 'poor thing'. I didn't blame myself as I knew it wasn't my fault, I just slowly began to realise that she had had a particularly horrible child hood. I still feel sorry for her, I don't hate her or anything, I get angry with the way she is sometimes, I'm not particularly fond of her mum and some of her mums boyfriends should be in prison. But I can't deal with all that anymore, I thought it was manageable when it was just the two of us but once we had kids I couldn't cope... as much as I thought I could it was a mess.
I think I must be something similar to what you say, that I must have 'victim mentality' as well. that paragraph rings bells for me. I've always been one for rescuing birds with broken wings and bringing home strays, people and animals : )
In my day I do at school as part of my classroom assistant course, it's the troubled kids I find the most interesting.
: )
Having just read up on victim mentality... I think I miss understood your post, maybe... I can see that that is what my X was suffering from.
No that's not me though... : )
I'm happy with who I am and all the things that happened to me when I was a kid have made me who I am and I don't blame anyone for anything, not in a negative way anyway.
I can relate to what you say about..
"so when I saw others getting upset, I would feel sorry for them and their obvious pain and disenchantment with life"
: )
Story of my life... feeling sorry for people and wanting to help them. (I don't consider that a bad thing though)
Yes, in general it IS good to help people! With the victim mentality, it is something about the other person "playing vicitm" in order to plant the blame/responsibility on you, the partner...and to avoid taking responsibioity for their own behaviour and instead, to foster a co-dependency where everything revolves around them without them having to tacke their issues.
Ok this seems to be getting confusing! When I said about victim mentality - I was saying I had it. After years of being told that I was all of the following I actually believed that I was always wrong, stupid, unable to think for myself etc. and wouldn't stick up for anything. I was a victim and I ended up playing the part - ouch, it still hurts thinking about it, but, it was by recognising this, I was able to change.
However am I right in thinking that your ex bubblegum was more about 'oh poor me, I have had it so hard and no-one understands' etc
Whereas Louise and I am now realising you are the professional counsellor here, is saying that it is used to plant the blame on someone else. Actually I am re-reading what you say and yes, I did play the victim, as I completely blamed him and didn't take responsibility for staying such a long time. Oh this is confusing, yet very interesting! Thanks chaps theres some food for thought!
I think wanting to help people is a sign of inner strength myself. 
warning signs i agree they are there but i think most of us only see them when we look back at things, when me and my ex got together he had just split from his wife he kept saying they were like ships passing in the night no relationship, then he would go on to say i need a lot of attention wow i wish i had picked up on that instead of laughing it off. when our kids came along and like all parents their needs come first thats when we started to become like "ships passing in the night" .
Very interesting, trying hard. Sounds as if he thoought he should still be number one even after the kids. I was talking with my eldest about this the other day, he is 22 and I was saying how dynamics change after children come along and as a man it was important for him to understand that, and to take a different role for a while. He said wow I never realised things would change between a couple and I am so pleased you shared all that with me, I am sure most young men don't know that. Expect he will be telling his friends now!
By the way I love your avatar!
he he it took a while to work it out but got there in the end!
Yes my ex certainly liked to have things done for him, i remember i was having a rant once about always being lumbered with doing the dishes he said "well its only one of me , one plate one knife and fork" couldnt believe what i was hearing the dishes were from our family our children unless he begrudged doing my sons dishes (oldest son not his) but i think he was just down right lazy!!!
I think having little chats with our children like you did with your son really does help them understand the important things in a relationship.
Yes, I think it seems to, I akways think with boys in particular it must be hard for them to know what their role is in today's world, especially when they do not always have good male role models in their lives....you have either got to be a bed-hopping footballer, an aggressive superhero or a lying businessman, if the media are to be believed.
Hi trying hard, it is always easier to see the warning signs after the event, however, we have the Freedom Programme coming online real soon and we look at warning signs. Hopefully armed with knowledge, next time the Warning Signs will be blaringly obvious with bright lights!!
I am so aware of them now. If any man moans about his ex - I am not interested, if he is too persistent, although flattering initially - I am not interested, if he has no money because of one thing or another - I am not interested!
Reading this I sound quite harsh, I guess once bitten, twice shy, but all too many of us continue down the same path with a different partner on our arm and I am SO not interested!!!
Hi Anna I totally agree withyou ive made the same mistake with two different partners, but i can hand on heart say i WILL NOT be doing it again even if im single for the rest of my life, im not afraid of being on my own any more which i feel is a big achievement, i actually enjoy making my own decisions and slowly gaining in confidence!
I truly beleive it is only once you are happy with yourself on your own and feel confident, that then you are ready for someone else, because the blinkers are off!
All of us here have been through tough times and had to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off, if we rush into another relationship, so that we are not 'on our own', it is bound to be disaster.
If we rebuild our lives from the bottom up, we are not going to let 'ANYONE' ruin that, I think we become more protective of our homes and our lives.
Keep up the good work Trying hard
Ah, warning signs. Sometimes you ignore them even though you know better, thinking 'it won't be like that with me'....
I'm not going to have a control freak again..... 
Hmmnn warnings signs?
Well, when we were first going out, I fainted on the floor in his bathroom, and he stepped over me saying he had to go to band practise! ( Should've known then, but we laughed it off, and he said he didn't really know me that well then, but I should've seen he was a selfish git then!).Although on our very first date he was actually very charming and had a great sense of humour.I always remember him saying" How tall are you in your stockinged feet?" As I'm 5ft 10" and he's 6ft 4"...I fell for his charm...He really changed over the years though( even his Mother said that), as he got more 'corporate' he wanted the 'high life' and when he finished with me, even said I wasn't ambitious enough for him, and never did anything...and just happy with what I had.
No bad thing in my mind that, being happy with what you have....
I often think that I was too easy going with him. As far as I could see he could go and do the things he wanted like band practise, tennis, drinks with his mates after work, but I was always there for him to come home too. Then I think I should've been harder with him....but then he probably would've still just left me and said that all I did was nag him...So I don't think you can win.
I remember an ex said that he was immature...( he actually is friends with a lot of his ex's...which at the time I thought was a good thing and he must be a nice bloke), but I have since found out, he is selfish, self- centered and manipulative, and doesn't like to be in the wrong...Oh and did I mention...a cheat?
If I knew then what I know now, I would never ever have gone out with him, and as I see it, if I had married someone else I still would've had my daughter( just would've been with someone else, that's how I like to look at it)...
It's easy when people say that you have to learn from your mistakes, but it's a great deal harder when you have to learn from other people's mistakes that you get caught up in!
The warning signs were there, but they were so subtle they were just niggles. I should have taken those niggles seriously and believed in my own instinct, because they it was telling me "no! this man is wrong for you!" Of course, the niggles became more obvious signs once I was trapped.
I am in a relationship with such a lovely man now. Sometimes, he makes me realise how much I didn't realise what I put up with, just by being or doing the opposite of my controlling ex. For example, this weekend I imagined that I was doing something that might annoy him. He noticed that I had become subdued and asked me, so I told him. He said that I should never let anything he does or says, control who I am, because I should just be me and not who anyone else wants me to be and that he loves me just the way I am. Just being able to have a normal conversation about fears and feelings, without fear of saying the wrong thing is amazing. My heart just sings out "YES!" :)
YES YES YES!!! Thats great to hear Rosedragon!
Did you hear that we shall be putting the Freedom Programme online very shortly (next few weeks) and I would love it if you would give it a test and see what you think. I have worked hard over the last few years to get it to be online, so I am hoping that it will work as well as the face to face programme.
One of my ex's used to always 'eye' up other girls. He told me it was perfectly ok as long as that was all he did. (Never liked me doing it to fellas though)!! Needless to say, he cheated on many occassions!