Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Recently there has been fierce controversy and political debate about the idea of whether fathers should have the right to equal time with their children following separation.

Have a read of our article Shared Care or Not? where there are some serious questions to ask yourself about your relationship with your ex, then come back here and let's talk about it Smile

Posted on: March 4, 2014 - 5:00pm
Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

That's really interesting, Anna. The list of questions needs to be applied to both parents of course. There are some countries (eg Australia) where the automatic assumption of the court is 50-50 shared care is best and parents have to apply to have this varied. It is not that long ago that children were seen as the "property" of their fathers in this country, eg the wife of Charles Dickens did not see her children for several years after her marital separation.

What does everyone think of the article?

Posted on: March 8, 2014 - 8:48am

Bubblegum
DoppleMe

Round pegs in square holes!

You can't legislate these sort of things because every case is different, most times you have to apply common sence which becomes impossible when you have too many laws saying things, things that are quite often impractical in the real world, laws made by people with no experience of what they are passing laws on.

There are rarely amicable outcomes when it comes to child custody, my CAFCAS person once told me that for each case there is one side that hates her and another side that loves her.

Those probably werent her exact words, but you get the idea, luckily it was me on the good side.

You can not legislate fairness. It's subjective! Something I regularly tell my children! (that fair is subjective)

Just saying 50/50 is not a solution.

But! As a single dad given full residency of my two, despite that, after having been through court, from my experience the whole thing is geared towards the mother having the children, If it was me who had been the violent drug and alcohol abusing parent who thretened to kill his own children and attacked the mother with a hammer and sauspan then I would probably have served some time and any sort of access would have been out of the question.

But even still, just saying 50/50 isn't the answer... and rarely will it be 'fair'

Education not legislation! : )

Posted on: March 9, 2014 - 1:04am

Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

I agree there will never be an ideal solution to apply across the board. In general my own belief is that courts tend to discriminate against dads these days. However, where one partner (whether man or woman) has been violent then I do believe the courts should be stricter than they are. I have been working with separated parents for over 12 years now and sadly, good and co-operative parenting after separation is pretty uncommon.

Posted on: March 9, 2014 - 8:22am

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

I agree with both of you. You can't just 'legislate' it and then everyone just skips off into the sunset holding hands saying Phew, I am glad someone sorted that out for us .....

Posted on: March 10, 2014 - 10:07am

Bubblegum
DoppleMe

Your reply made me laugh : )

Posted on: March 10, 2014 - 8:14pm

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Cool

Well unfortunately I was the person who was able to answer Yes to most of the questions in that article. The problem was my ex didn't quite see it the same way. It was going to be His way or NO way!

Posted on: March 11, 2014 - 4:37pm

Pegworth
DoppleMe

I answered "yes" to 7 of the questions so I guess that means we are suitable for attempting shared care. My husband wants 50/50 residency but I want a 5 night / 2 night split. I believe my children will feel more secure having one 'main' home but visiting their Dad regularly. He has them from 10am Saturday until Monday. He then collects them from school Monday and drops them to me. In addition to this I have offered him they can go to tea at his place on Wednesdays. He feels this is not enough access. We have been assessed and told we are unsuitable for mediation (he is very controlling and writes me long harrassing emails). I'm now dreading having to sort this disagreement in court!

 

Posted on: March 13, 2014 - 2:26pm

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi Pegworth, it sounds as though you are offering a reasonable amount of contact. The Courts generally go for once a fortnight, although if it is working well as it is, they may deem that the current arrangement is ok.

I hope that you are keeping all his emails, as they are evidence of him trying to bully you to change your mind.

We have an expert in family law that you can send a message to, to give you some top tips on how to address this situation. Click here: Legal Expert

Are you getting any face to face support with this?

Posted on: March 13, 2014 - 5:19pm

PMediation

Shared care, whether totally equal time or not will only work if you are both Ok about it, however many  questions you answer yes to.  Every family is different and what will suit one family and some children wont suit others.

If you and he are both prepared to try mediation then it might be worth trying.  You say you have been told you are unsuitable for mediation.  However if you both feel it is worth trying it is probably worth it.  Mediation can offer you the opportunity to improve your communication and to talk about the arrangements together and what will work best for your children and both of you and when you have children thats so important.  Sometimes court is necessary but if you can avoid it, it is often much better for the children.  Children do not like to see their parents fighting and courts are all about fighting.

Posted on: March 14, 2014 - 12:08am

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Thanks for coming online PMediation and commenting on this thread. Pegworth why was Mediation deemed unsuitable?

Posted on: March 14, 2014 - 10:37am

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Thanks Anna and PMediation for your helpful replies, and sorry for my delayed reply! (I didn't see the notification in my email!) Yes I am keeping his bullying emails. I also have a solicitor and am awaiting her advice. I've done the Freedom Programme on this website (which was brilliant) and now I'm doing it in 'real life' too!

PMediation, we were individually (seperately) assessed at a local mediation service and subsequently told we were a difficult case. They concluded that our views are so far apart that they didn't want to waste our money or time. My solicitor has seen my husband's emails and also felt that we would not be suitable for mediation because my ex is so controlling.

This week he is keeping the children an extra day without my consent and simply sent me an email reiterating his Parental Responsibility rights.:-(

I was relieved to hear Anna's comment that the contact I've offered is reasonable.

Posted on: March 16, 2014 - 11:12pm

PMediation

Does not seem good that he is keeping children without your agreement.  I still think mediation might be worth trying if you are both up for it.  Maybe it wont work but  does sound as if he needs to hear what you have got to say about the arrangements when somebody else is their to help stop arguments getting out of control.  Generally if both parents are willing to try mediation it is worth giving it a try for at least one session.

Posted on: March 16, 2014 - 11:59pm

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Good morning Pegworth, it sounds as though you are doing everything you can to move this situation forward. I am really glad that you found the Freedom Programme useful and that you are doing it in 'real life' too, it can really cement the learning.

That must have been quite a shock to be told that you were a 'difficult' case as it sounds as though you are being amenable. I am presuming that he told the mediators a very different story to what you were saying. Did they give you any more feedback other than your views being far apart?

What has your solicitor said about him keeping the children without your consent?

PMediation, are you suggesting that Pegworth try through another mediation service? Could this situation be that the mediators that they went to, recognise that Pegworths childrens father is intent on controlling the situation and would therefore be impossible to work with, but wouldn't say as much?

Stay strong Pegworth, you are on a difficult journey, glad to hear that you have support of agencies around you.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 9:11am

PMediation

Anna/Pegworth

 

Yes I suppose I am saying that it might be worth trying somewhere else.  As a mediator, unless I really think someone is in danger by attending, if both parents really want to attend I usually says its worth a try for your childrens sake.  The alternative doing nothing and just letting him take control or going to court and having expense and more confrontation are not great alternatives so as long as you are both prepared to attend mediation might be worth a try.  Part of the point of the initial meeting is for you to develop a rapport with the mediator, to make sure it is someone you feel comfortable with.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 9:19am

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Yes Anna, it was a shock to be told we are a 'difficult case'. I cried and asked the mediation service if I had done something wrong! They are not allowed to reveal if it is anyone's 'fault' that we are 'unsuitable' but I understand that domestic violence can make a couple unsuitable. While my husband is not physically violent he is very controlling. My solicitor said him not returning the children may help me in an application for a residence order but that Courts will not make any Orders in relation to children unless it is absolutely necessary and that the process can be very expensive. Today my husband has emailed me to say he has applied for a residence order himself. 

PMediation, I do suspect it would be a waste of money to pay for mediation just to have my husband control the meeting and not back down, and I think the mediators were of the same opinion. Apparently three mediators sat down and had a lengthy discussion about our case. But as you say "letting him take control or going to court and having expense and more confrontation are not great alternatives". I do feel like I am between a rock and a hard place.

My next idea is to offer my husband a variety of childcare arrangements, rolling rotas etc and see if we can agree something.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 1:51pm

PMediation

If you need further help in what to say to him we can try and make some suggestions.  Will you meet him or how will you try and sort things out?  It does sound as if he is not listening.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 2:15pm

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Thanks Pmediation. Can you recommend a website resource with suggestions of different child arrangment patterns/ calendars/ schedules? And any good articles that advise how we might approach a meeting using our family members as mediators?

Alternatively I could try to discuss this with him by email but he does send long controlling emails and we have not been able to resolve it so far by email.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 4:20pm

Sally W
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi Pegworth, totally relate to the rock and the hard place, hopefully Pmediation will know where you can find some resources.

You could always go through your solicitor with your recommendations for contact, that way you may save your self the lengthy email reply.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 6:13pm

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Thanks Sally. Yes you're probably right about using the solicitor. But it's just that every letter she sends will cost me money! Undecided

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 6:34pm

PMediation

Pegworth, thought you could have a look at the site www.parentconnection.org.uk, as there are several useful articles about childrens arrangements.

You could also look at www.progressive-mediation.co.uk as I have put a Parenting Plan on that site.  Often a Parenting Plan can be a useful document setting out arrangements, how you deal with change, illness, schools, holidays, christmas, communication etc. 

If there is a lot of argument in mediation often helping people focus on completiing a document together with me in mediation can be a way of working out a contact schedule.  You could go this with the family members who might try and help you.

Posted on: March 17, 2014 - 8:31pm

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Thanks so much PMediation. I will have a look at those resources.

 

 

Posted on: March 18, 2014 - 10:56am

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Just want to thank Anna and PMediation again and to update you: We went to Court a few days after the law changed. There is now no such thing as a Residence Order or a Shared Residence Order. We had a lot of meetings at Court mediated by the Cafcass officer. The judge told us our case seemed to be about a power struggle, and that he would be very disapointed if we could not come to some agreement that day. We eventually agreed a complicated 28 day rota where the kids spend a little more time with me than they do with their dad, and the judge made a Child Arrangements Order. I am relieved as it had got to the point where my ex was refusing to return the children on days that he had them until he'd had the contact that he thought was "fair", and was threatening to turn up at school to collect them because of his 'parental responsibility rights'.

My solicitor was amazing, and to anyone reading this thread who is being taken to Court by a controlling ex-partner I would highly recommend getting a solicitor if you can possibly afford it. My ex represented himself.

Posted on: May 16, 2014 - 3:30pm

Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Thanks for the update, Pegworth, and glad that you appear to have got a satisfactory arrangement and let us hope the children's dad will stick to it now it is down in black and white.

Posted on: May 17, 2014 - 7:51am

PMediation

So pleased that things might work out better for you and children.  I would be interested to know your feeling on the role the Cafcass Officer took in helping you reach an agreement.

Posted on: May 17, 2014 - 8:14am

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi Pegworth, thanks for the update, although the new arrangement sounds complicated, it also sounds as though you are happier with it.

Posted on: May 19, 2014 - 9:11am

Pegworth
DoppleMe

Thanks everyone. It's not the outcome I wanted as my personal feeling is that swapping between homes two or three times a week is a less stable arrangement for the children's sense of security than having one main home. But over all I am just so relieved that the disagreements have stopped and we can begin to rebuild our lives and get used to a new routine.

I think the mediation facilitated by the Cafcass officer was helpful as she did point out to my ex on a few occasions that we were trying to come up with the best plan for the children, as opposed to what is fair to the parents. (My ex kept talking numbers, counting days and talking about what was fair and equal to him as a parent.) But I could never have sat in the same room with him without my solicitor also being there as I found it intimidating and very emotional. My solicitor was aware of the controlling nature of my ex having read many of his emails and letters, whereas the Cafcass officer obviously did not have so much awareness of the background to our case.

The most important thing is I think the children now have sensed a reduction in stress and tension in their parents and seem happier as a result.Laughing

Posted on: May 22, 2014 - 11:19pm

Anna
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hi Pegworth

Your final sentence is lovely to read, the children now have have the stability of knowing what is going on and when and the security of knowing that they are loved.

Your Cafcass officer, although wasn't aware of the full extent of your ex's behaviour was obviously definately determined for him to put the children first rather than himself.

Have you had a good weekend? 

Posted on: May 26, 2014 - 10:27am

PMediation

Yes, sounds as if in the limited time the Cafcass officer had to find out about the situation, they did what they could to help and it did help.

Trying to reach agreements in a court building with the pressure of going into a hearing are always difficult.

Best thing is you are less in conflict and thats helping your children.  May seem obvious to say, but what children often hate most is their parents fighting.

Posted on: May 26, 2014 - 10:37am

Pegworth
DoppleMe

PMediation; I actually think it was the pressure of being in Court that forced my ex to compromise in the end. All day we had meetings with Cafcass in which I compromised from my original contact suggestion but he would not budge an inch. I think in the end it was the stern words from the judge, and the pressure of not wanting to drag out such a stressful experience over several months that finally got my ex to agree to the rota we ended up with.

Anna; Yes thanks I had a lovely weekend with the kids. I had zero weekend contact before the new rota, only school days, so it's great to be able to take them on outings etc. now. Smile

Posted on: May 26, 2014 - 2:56pm

PMediation

Hope things continue to go well for you and children

Posted on: May 26, 2014 - 3:02pm

Sally W
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Glad to hear that you have some weekend contact Pegworth, it must be such a relief to have it all over and done with. 

Posted on: May 26, 2014 - 5:07pm