Hi everyone, my name is S, I have 2 grown up children and 3 grandchildren. Have a huge problem with my son and daughter-in-law at the moment and apologies for this being so long.
My son married in 2009, the family welcomed his wife into the family although I have to admit that deep down we did not feel right about her but kept these feelings to ourselves. Her and my daughter just did not get on, they fell out before the marriage but made peace again, 2 years ago on New Years Eve they had a huge row, my DIL is a very volatile lady who has much anger in her due to her upbringing, she told my son not to see his sister again as it causes to much trouble. (My daughter and son were very close before this). My son went along with this to keep the peace. However, 3 weeks ago, my DIL decided to make contact with my daughter, for various reasons my daughter did not want to get involved, she said she just did not want to see DIL again as it causes her too much stress and she is doing exams, interviews and presentations at the moment so has a lot to concentrate on at the moment but was willing to see them in the near future, all this was done by text messages. About 10 days ago, my son rang his sister and a row erupted, and all the past wrong doings were brought up, accusations against my daughter for things she had supposedly done. My daughter remained calm and decided to mention an episode when she was in hospital 4 years ago, DIL went to visit her and fiddled with the saline drip (not in a malicious way), which meant that she had to much of the fluid going into her, this was brought up at the end of the phone call, whereby my daughter said, DIL tried to kill me, this sent my DIL into a rage, she called my daughter some very abusive names and was very vile, the call was ended. My daughter rang me very upset and distraught and I tried to comfort her.
Now for my big mistake, I look after my middle grandson one day a week, because of what happened, I just couldn't face going, I felt as if I would be letting my daughter down, this has caused huge problems as I know I took sides but it was a spur of the moment thing. DIL doesn't want anything more to do with me and won't let me see my 2 little grandsons, she said I should not have brought them into all this. Last week, late at night, I had abusive texts from DIL, they were obviously rowing, presumably after a few drinks, as they do drink too much. She accused me and my daughter of wrecking her marriage. A couple of days later, there were more abusive texts (at this point I had to block her number). When my son phoned the next day, he said she lashed out at him and he had to call the police at 3.00 am, she was eventually locked in a cell for 10 hours. He said a similar thing happened about 6 months ago, whereby she called the police. I know that a lot of this is caused by alcohol. I have since spoken to my son, he said he regrets calling the police and she is angry about this and is now giving him 2 weeks to see 'how things go', he is also sleeping in the spare room. I have taken a big step back from all this but I cannot see how a remark from my daughter on the phone and me not turning up to look after my grandson could be a reason to end a marriage. I am worried about the 2 small boys witnessing all this although he said they were asleep. I feel pretty lousy at the moment feeling as if it is all my fault. DIL is a very controlling lady and is also very confrontational. It doesn't take much to upset her. My son said he loves his wife to bits and wants things to work, as I do but all the above is not a very good recipe for a happy marriage. I am also scared I will never see my grandsons again. I spoke to my son yesterday and he said that his marriage is hanging on by a thread. The last thing I want is for them to part. I have tried to help so much with the little ones, babysitting etc. and feel it is all thrown in my face.
Have spoken to my son a couple of times since, and he says that he is the one to blame for everything and he is doing more to make the marriage work, I can't help feeling that she is enjoying the power at the moment. She still will not let me see the grandsons, and my son will not stand up to her.
Sorry this message is so long and thank you for taking the time to read it. Any bit of advice or comfort would be well appreciated.
welcome its a bit late but as a mummy of quite a few and 3 grandbabies i hpe to be on tomorrow will chat hen i have 'man flu'
HM
Well I am just not getting anywhere, spoke to my son yesterday and asked when I could see the little ones, he said unless I apologise to DIL she is permanently banning me! I don't feel I have done anything to apologise for, he will not stand up to her and is letting her throw her weight around. I know that if I was to apologise, she would find something else to 'put my head on the chopping block' for. I am very dissapointed that my son is being so weak.
I do hope it works out for you
If you need someone to talk to then there are a couple of possibilities:
Samaritans 08457 90 90 90
Family Lives 0808 800 2222
Hi Very Upset
I am coming to this very late so I am not sure you will still be reading this but I wanted to give you the benefit of my experience.
I have had a lot of emotional problems like your DIL but I have worked hard to change things for myself and it has given me a bit of insight which I hope will help you.
For you guys all to live harmoniously, your DIL needs to change. She needs to recognise she has problems (either you or she have drawn a connection between her bad behaviour and her upbringing) and she needs to be prepared to work on them.
However, this is extremely unlikely to happen especially as your son is enabling her behaviour.
Given that she is not going to change, you have a choice. You can either walk away and never see the children again or you can apologise to her.
What I will say is, this lady 100% believes she is right. She is an emotional vampire (someone who drains emotions out of others) and the biggest insight I have had about these people is they genuinely do believe their motives are pure.
Emotional vampires only cope with life because they live in a fantasy world where they are perfect. If you disrupt that by saying anything negative or against their world view as it were you are in for a world of pain.
Normal people like you and I instinctively deal with emotional vampires by trying to explain to them how we feel. We desperately want them to "be reasonable" and we think if we can just get them to understand things will be okay. Unfortunately they won't.
Both my mother and my ex-husband are emotional vampires and I can tell you, if i had known this about not disrupting their fantasy view of themselves as flawless I would have been able to maintain a relationship with my Mum.
If you can salvage this relationship with your DIL that would obviously be ideal. I have to deal with my ex husband's lies and drama on a daily basis but since i have realised he genuinely believes his "truth" i have been able to let it go over my head a lot more.
Is it possible for you to deal with your DIL in a similar way? Think about the things you can apologise genuinely for. For example, you already said it was a mistake to not look after the Grandchildren that time. Perhaps you could speak to DIL and apologise for that. I wouldn't go into too much detail about why you did it, just apologise sincerely that you did it.
Then when you are dealing with her on a daily basis you need to be the one to set boundaries. Your son is not going to do that as he is too concerned with keeping the status quo. It is disappointing that he is weak as you say but he probably has some emotional problems of his own given that he is taking her abuse. As an aside, he would probably benefit from his own therapy.
Back to boundaries. Say you apologise for what you can then ask her if you can see the children again. (BTW be careful not to make any passive aggressive comments or any digs about what has gone on - remember you have to be in her fantasy world during this conversation). i would lay it on that you appreciate she may have lost trust in you but that you would like the opportunity to rebuild that trust.
Once you are back seeing the children you need to remain vigilant for your boundaries being violated. An example would be an abusive message from her. You need to be ready to deal with her behaviour in a calm mature manner. For example, "if you are upset with me, please talk to me about it."
Focussing on what you want to achieve rather than what is happening or has happened in the past is key to dealing with these people.
In terms of your daughter, given the above insight into your DIL's world, it's clear your daughter has inadvertantly got embroiled. If she wants to she can do the same as you can - show maturity and emotional strength by concentrating on taking responsibility for her behaviour (for example she could apologise for suggesting DIL was trying to kill her) and then focussing on what she wants to happen now. This could actually be that she doesn't want to see DIL and that's fine, however, she might want to be able to have a relationship with her brother and why shouldn't she.
I know it's hard to suck it up when someone is so vindictive and toxic but if you want to see your grandchildren you will have to try and do it. At the end of the day, the whole family has a choice. The one thing you can't do is control her or make your son stand up for you. You have to be the grown up in this situation.
Ridiculously unfair I know but that's emotional vampires for you. As an aside, it sounds like you are feeling resentful about all you have done for them and they have thrown it back in your face. It's worth remembering that you gave freely at the time. Feeling resentful is normal but if it is a very strong feeling it might be worth questioning whether you were actually helping with strings attached.....just a thought.
Eventually their marriage probably will break down unfortunately and you really need that relationship however superficial will DIL if you want to maintain contact with the kids. The best thing you can do for your son is the build his confidence and self esteem and to never say anything negative about his wife to him.
This is obviously all my own opinion so please take with a pinch of salt but just wanted to put a different perspective out there.
Good luck with it.
x
Some great suggestions GoodEnoughMum, sometimes we do have to be the one to apologise so that we can allow things to move on.
Thank you so much for your replies, GoodEnoughMum, yes you gave some great advice. I know that apologising would be the best option, at the moment I just cannot face doing this, I know how abusive and nasty she would be and the power she would enjoy, she would also boast to her friends and family that I have backed down, she is a person that is 'always right'. Maybe in the future I will write her a letter but at this moment in time, because my nerves are torn to shreds I just cannot take anymore abuse from her. To be honest I don't really want to see her again, but she is married to my son, I know that is not a very good attitude but it is all I can come up with at the moment, this may sound terrible but I hope that he will see the light and leave her, that probably sounds so cruel but that is how I am feeling at the moment. We used to be such a close family and never experienced this sort of problem before so I suppose I am blaming her for ripping us all apart. I will keep reading your message and maybe I will do as you suggest in the future. Thank you again X
I totally understand. It's so hard when you are around toxic and abusive people and of course the healthy thing is to walk away and leave them to it. The difficulty comes when you really need to keep them in your life.
If you can afford it I would recommend getting some therapy for yourself. Not necessarily to decide what to do about your DIL etc. but more to see if you have any underlying issues you could take care of that would make you a stronger person.
Books I have found helpful are "Emotional Vampires: Dealing With People Who Drain You Dry" by Albert J Bernstein and any book about boundaries - for example "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend (can't remember if that one is religious though).
For me to be able to deal effectively with my ex-husband and to decide to cut my Mum out of my life (without guilt etc.) I have had to work on myself more than anything. My divorce brought up a lot of issues that I have worked through and am definitely more emotionally aware and emotionally mature. This has really helped me deal with these difficult people.
I hope you will be able to too. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Gem
x
I just reread your post and I anted to add a couple of things.
First, is about her always being right and telling everyone you backed down. I know it's hard but you have to believe that eventually everyone will catch on to her. Most of her friends probably don't even like her. Most people that know her will hear her side of it and know there is a lot more too it. Perhaps you could think about why it bothers you so much what she says to other people? Logically speaking you know what she says is irrelevant as you know the truth and she is crazy.....
The second thing is about you guys being a close family. It's possible that actually you were never as close as you think you were. Please don't be upset by me suggesting it, I may be wrong but I thought I would put it out there as something to consider. It's possible that what you had previously interpreted as closeness was something a little less healthy. Maybe you are scared that this is the case and this is making you even more angry and upset with your son?
Sometimes people mistake enmeshment with closeness. That can sometimes work for the parent but rarely works for the child as an adult as they may seem to have grown up but never fully have.
I hope I haven't offended you suggesting this but it really helped me to consider out of the box ideas when I was going through this sort of thing myself. If you think about it (alone or in therapy) and you decide it's not correct then no harm done, but if you gain some insight into your family dynamic it can only help you move forward.
Thinking of you.
Gem
x
Thank you, if has certainly given me food for thought. I am going to see my GP this afternoon as I am just not functioning very well at all at the moment, hopefully I may be referred for some counselling.
As a family, yes we were very close, my daughter and son had a fantastic relationship and rarely fell out, now they haven't spoken for over 2 years and it breaks my heart. When my son married I was happy for him but also had quite a few reservations, mainly because of DIL's upbringing, ie: a dad that left when she was very young and she does not see anymore and a mum that left her to look after her 2 younger brothers when she was about 9 years old, she is always on the defensive. I also have looked into the fact that my daughter may have been jealous and did not want to lose her brother and with a volatile sister in law, things were probably doomed from the start.
You haven't offended me at all, I suppose because my son was the youngest I tended to molly coddle him quite a bit and I blame myself that he is weak and is not standing up for himself whereas my daughter is much tougher. Sometimes I feel that he resents me because of all the above but I suppose the damage is done now.
Thank you for your thoughts X
Never say never! At the end of the day your son is an adult. Any "damage" you may or may not have done to him as a child is his responsibility to deal with now. You have been very supportive of your family and done everything you can do. Unfortunately change is inevitable in life and this situation is really tough with the siblings fighting as it invariably leads to triangulation. You did really well to keep impartial all that time. It's harsh that the one time you dropped the ball has led to your Grandchildren being taken away from you.
I'm so glad to hear you are seeing your GP I think that's a smart move. I'm sorry your son and Grandchildren are insnared in you DIL's craziness but if you look after yourself and build your strength you will be able to be there for them when they need you.
Can you remember when your daughter was 9? How fragile and vulnerable she was? If you can picture that and see your DIL as she was as a child you will see she is still that frightened 9 year old. Children depend on their parents for their survival. Your children were lucky you gave them that stability and security and they never had to feel terrified they would be left alone. I can't imagine what DIL went through in her childhood but she must have felt completely abandoned.
Feeling abandoned as a child can lead to crazy behaviour as an adult (been there done that!) as you try everything to keep people close. Your son probably feels very emotionally bound to her as she will be literally fighting for survival - literally her life - everytime they have an argument or he seems to be putting someone or something above her. She will genuinely feel like she will die if she doesn't do this, not realising that she is an adult and can take care of herself now.
All really sad and of course totally unconsiously done. But anyway, my point was if you can see her as the 9 year old or even younger you may be able to find some compassion for her.
I wish you all the luck in the world with this.
Gem
x
Thank you so much for all your sound advice, you are a very intelligent and astute lady, I wish I could be more like you.
I may write a letter to DIL, but not just yet, I really don't know what to say or whether to mention something on the lines that you have mentioned above regarding her childhood or whether to just apologize for not looking after the child that day and leave it at that. Just not ready to do it at the moment. Hopefully when I come back from the visit to the doctor's later I may be in a better frame of mind. At the moment I am not functioning properly at all, have not bothered with any hobbies or household chores, not like me at all, just feel a bit like a rag doll and sorry for myself. Not good. I don't think it will matter what I do, to be honest, I don't think she wants to have anything to do with me or will let me see the children, not now or in the future
You are right, my son is a grown adult, I just have had difficulty in accepting that and still see him as a little boy dependant on me, I suppose I have not learnt to let go.
You sound so 'on the ball', perhaps I can try to take a leaf out of your book. XX
I think you sound more on the ball than you think. I am only like this because I have been through a lot to get here. I'm no better than you, trust me!!
In terms of how you are feeling (a bit depressed) I wouldn't beat yourself up about that. This is a very sad situation. You are going through a grieving process. You are grieving the loss of the little ones, your son, your son and daughter's relationship, your easier life before DIL came on the scene etc. etc. Why shouldn't you give some of your usual activites a miss while you come to terms with this. You wouldn't expect someone dealing with a death to do all those things.
Try and be kind to yourself. Emotions and emotional vampire situations can leave us drained and exhausted. That's normal and if you take care of yourself and talk kindly to yourself you will get through it. That said if it continues a long time and gets worse it's great you have your GP on board.
The other thing you said about no matter what you do she won't let you see them is really catastrophic thinking. Yes, it is a possibility but you don't know for sure. I think you have more chance if you just apologise rather than talk about her issues (as remember she thinks she is perfect) but you're right it might not happen. it's unfair on her to not give her a chance. Plus the benefit of attempting to make it work is you can keep trying in a calm consistent mature manner and you will feel like you have done everything you can.
You're great don't forget it! Your son and daughter really need you even though they are grown up.
x
Thank you for the kind words. Actually feel a complete failure at the moment, never mind I am sure it will pass. Have just come back from the doctor's and I have been given anti depressants and she has referred me for counselling. You are right about me being drained and exhausted, just don't feel like doing anything.
Have spoken to my daughter and she says I ought to let my son know just what I am going through as she puts it, it is all his and DIL's fault. Have not told her that I may think about writing to DIL, she will go completely bananas, she says it will give her so much power and even more control. She feels I should let it go and let them get on with it. Wish it was that easy.
Not sure what to put in a letter if I do write, I know I will have to be very careful as things will get misinterpreted, if she decides to ignore it then there is absolutely nothing I can do. Just don't think I can do it at the moment though.
I hope one day I can be forgiven for making one small mistake. XX
It wasn't really about your one small mistake. Everything she does it about trying to right the wrongs of her childhood. This is impossible as it is in the past and cannot be changed. Sadly dysfunctional people expend a lot of energy trying anyway.
I'm not sure if telling your son what you are going through is necessarily helpful as how you feel is not his responsibility. If he has done something concrete and specific that you can speak to him about (for example, "on Tuesday I felt you were disrespectful when you said XXX to me") you should definitely bring those things to the table. If you can't address the relationship with DIL you could certainly address the relationship with your son.
This situation is not all DIL and son's fault - your daughter is quite understandably over reacting because she is angry. There is always fault on both sides and that is a fact. I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your own fault - no more and no less - and refraining from blame wherever possible.
No matter what your daughter thinks, cutting them out of your life is not the answer at this time. It might be right for her but if you do it the only person you will hurt is yourself - although it sounds like a short break will be very beneficial indeed!
I have stopped having contact with my Mum and it is a relief. I have no guilt or regret surrounding it. I feel lighter and happier without her in my life. However, to get to this stage took a great many years and a lot of heartache and personal growth before I could honestly say it was unsalvagable. If you do end up going down that road I would want you to have that same peace.
Good luck with the antidepressants. I hear they may take a while to work so keep looking after yourself.
x
Yes they take about 4 to 6 weeks to work.
It must have taken one hell of a lot of heartache to cut your mum out of your life but you obviously had very good reason, I really do not think I could go down that road, I want to see my son and grandsons but for that to happen I know I have to build some bridges with DIL, I know it sounds negative but I just don't think at this moment in time she will be interested. I will, when I am feeling a bit stronger write her a letter, I haven't a clue what I am going to say or whether she will respond, if she doesn't then that's it, there is nothing I can do. I am dissapointed in my son for not standing up to her, she is getting all her own way and has the power and control over him. I blame myself for that. Have re read one of your messages where you say that the marriage will probably break down eventually, I think you may be right, I don't see how a marriage can survive with all that has gone on, and there are probably many things that I don't know about. Part of me wishes it would end, but I shouldn't be saying that I know.
It is my grandsons first birthday in 2 weeks time, I know that I will not be invited as I have in the past for all their celebrations but will still buy a present and card of course. Don't know how my son will be coping with the isolation, it cannot be making him happy.
You seemed to have learnt to cope with your problems very well but I realise that it has taken many years. I hope I can be as strong XX
Hello Very Upset, sorry to hear that your feeling so low right now.
GoodEnoughMum has indeed given you some great suggestions, i do think that it would be a great idea to let the dust settle for a while, and getting yourself in a better frame of mind before you think about what you are going to write in that letter.
I would be inclined to keep it to a very simple apology.
It sounds like she has specifically said to your son that she would accept an apology from you so as long as it was straight forward and plain (not bringing up anything!) and without any hidden agenda (i.e. genuine) there is no reason why she shouldn't agree. I will keep everything crossed you feel better soon.
Gem
x
Well, had a chat with my son last night, I kept the conversation light and didn't ask about seeing the boys, he said that things are still tough with DIL, all I can say to him is that I am here if he needs me. I really don't think that writing a letter at this moment in time is going to help, I am under the impression that she doesn't want to know me and will definetly not let me see the boys. My other half thinks that she wants my son out as she has got someone else, but I am not so sure about that but it is a possibility, she is quite a flirty type. I don't think there is anything I can do at the moment and am just left feeling helpless!
x
Hi Very Upset, it is good that you are keeping communication open and light with your son.
If you don't feel ready to write a letter at this point then it isn't the right time for you. You can only be responsible for your own behaviour and never second guess someone else's. It might be that if you held out an olive branch at this point in time, she gratefully accepts that this is one step towards sorting out all this upset or it might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
It sounds as though you are in stalemate and nothing will move forward of its own accord.
When is your first appointment with the counsellor?
Hi Anna
Thank you for your comment.
I have a telephone appointment with the counsellor on the 13th March, this is for an assessment, hope it makes me feel better to get everything out.
One other thing that people have suggested that if I had turned up for babysitting that day, I would have probably been in the firing line anyway as she would have no doubt said some awful things about my daughter and I would have retaliated so I was probably in a 'no win' situation anyway.
Why does life have to be so complicated? all I want is a peaceful life!
Just thought I would update you with what's happened over the weekend, I tried to phone my son last week around 3 times and sent texts to ask if he was OK (he had the snip on Wed), I was beginning to get worried so I got my ex hubby to text him, (we have remained good friends for the sake of the family), we were both surprised to get quite a cold reply back. Son said he hadn't heard anything from anyone and no one bothered to ask how the op went, he said he needs the support of his family at the moment and won't have bad things said about DIL, so I phoned him myself and had long conversation with him, he said he didn't get my messages on his voicemail from me and I definitely left them, I really believe that the DIL probably deleted them. He said that each time he has called I have been cold with him but as I explained I have been deliberately keeping my distance while the dust settles. He has asked me to apologise to her for not turning up to look after grandson that day, as things cannot move on and it will only get worse, so I put my pride in my pocket and called her but got no reply, so I sent her a long text apologising for my actions, asking if she would like to meet up and draw a line under everything, so far there has been no reply. As it was mother's day yesterday I thought my son would have come to see me, but he didn't. I eventually got a card posted through the door early this morning, he usually gives me cards with lovely words in them but this time it was just a basic card, quite cold really. I am finding this so difficult to deal with, my daughter said I should cut him out of my life completely, but he is my son and that is difficult.
Hi very upset
Thanks for keeping us updated. Well done for saying sorry to DIL. I'm not sure about the fact that it was a long text....wondering what you said! But anyway, a great first move. Someone has to and you did so big pat on the back to you.
The problem is that she has driven even more of a wedge between you and son through the vasectomy thing (or lets give her the benefit of the doubt maybe it was a technical error in which case she has certainly made the most of the moment!) The apology came after this and also your son reiterating that an apology from you is what's required. This gives her ample opportunity to decide your apology was not sincere.
However, that's no reason to give up or feel downhearted. The fact is you are sorry you didn't look after the kids that day, you are human, you made a mistake. This is something you can apologise for again in the future to her face but then it should be finished. A simple apology for a simple mistake is all that should be required so you have done the right thing.
Regarding the Mother's Day Card, hurtful as it is remember he's got the Vasectomy circumstances and her in his ear. It is hard for him to think straight at the moment. The fact he sent a card is positive. It's possible she doesn't know he sent it (hence why it was late). The fact he wrote very little is probably more indicative of his confusion over what he thinks has gone on rather than a lack of love for you or appreciation for your mothering. Try not to read too much into it. You have your daughter in your ear trying to control and manipulate you so you can imagine what it's like for him (albeit multiplied by 100 by the sounds of it).
I'm sure if you sit tight and let things mull for a bit she will contact you. If she doesn't get back to you in a reasonable time, it would be a good idea to think about a way to apologise that is indisputable to your son - i.e. in front of him. Just in case she has deleted your text.
Meanwhile have you thought what you are going to do about your daughter? Why is she so invested in you cutting son out of your life? Is it because she wants you to "join her side" or perhaps it's because she's worried about how this is affecting you? If so, do you have other people to lean on instead of her?
Really you want this issue between you and Son/DIL. Although with your "original mistake" you made it between you, son/DIL and daughter, you have stopped that now by apologising. From here on it should be about you. If you have a problem with either of them it is up to you to deal with it. If daughter has a problem with either of them it is up to her to deal with it. They're both adults now.
Will keep everything crossed for you for the next few days.
Love Gem
x
Thank you for your reply GEM, to be honest I have a feeling she has blocked my number, I have copied and pasted the text I sent to her:
Hi xxxxx I hope you are OK & things are better for you. I just want to say I am really sorry I let you down that day, it was a spur of the moment decision I genuinely felt quite bad that day & would not have managed the whole day but in hindsight should have come, if only for part of the day. We all make mistakes but I hope we can draw a line under everything. If you want to meet for a chat, let me know & will sort something out but I really don’t want to argue or get caught in the middle of anymore disputes. I would have preferred to have phoned you but I have no landline and only using mobile for short calls. xxxxxxx
To cut a long story short, I do not have a landline at the moment due to a corroded underground cable and I am waiting for this to be fixed, should have been today but with the weather being so bad, they weren't able to do it. Everything is against me at the moment, negative I know, but it is how I feel at this moment in time. I have a pay as you go mobile so I cannot even communicate properly at the moment.
My daughter is propably revelling in it all at the moment as she is the one geting all the attention, I do understand that, but she is now looking on herself as an only child and never wants anything more to do with her brother, it hurts so much as when they were children they were so close. I feel that DIL has come along and ruined all that, she had such a bad childhoood I think there is a certain amount of resentment that the man she married had a fairly normal upbringing. I probably sound really cruel and heartless but I wish he would leave her.
Just feel like giving up, sorry. xx
Hi very upset
Your text was really excellent. I think it sounded really genuine. Well done. The only thing is the difficulty communicating verbally on the phone which I understand must be very fraustrating. Hopefully that gets sorted asap.
Your daughter's feelings about your son is not relevant to you in this situation. No matter how close they were as kids, the sibling relationship is totally different to the mother/child relationship. You have to let yourself grieve for the loss of that relationship between your children but at the end of the day, you can't affect that. You don't have control over them as they are independent adults. The situation is what it is and they have both made a decision not to have a relationship. It is up to them to ensure the needs they both formerly got met from one another are met in other ways in their life.
The difference with you is a parent's love is, or at least should be, unconditional. You can't just switch off your love and care for your son no matter how much you may want to. I truly believe maintaining your boundaries as you are and staying out of conflict wherever possible is the way forward for you. I would avoid talking to your daughter about the situation as much as you can. If she tries to influence you I would kindly but firmly let her know you appreciate her opinion but you are dealing with it your own way.
Even if DIL and son broke up things will never be the same again. Things change as people grow up. Dreaming of that day won't be helpful. I know you want your son back on your side as it were and I can understand that, but the end of his marriage won't necessarily bring about the closeness you desire. Don't give up on them as a couple because that is the reality of here and now. If you give up on them as a couple you give up on your son and I know that's not what you want.
Your daughter may be enjoying her moment as Golden Child (formerly held by son maybe??) but you can't let that be the reason you end contact with your son.
Have you got some good friends to confide in?
Gem
x
Thank you so much for your input. Yes I have a couple of close friends but one is away at the moment. I feel like I am boring everyone to tears, I do understand about my daughter being the golden girl (yes, it always used to be my son) and I know too much damage has been done now and I am trying not to live in that fantasy world of them being close again. I will never give up on my son, I love him to bits as I do my daughter. I also know I cannot live in the past but it is hard, I think about the way things were but you are right, things do not stay the same. I'm afraid I am drinking too much wine at the moment and have been for a few weeks, that is not good as it will only make things worse but it just numbs some of the emotional pain I am feeling, I have only ever drank socially before. I hope the counselling) starting on Wednesday) will help, but feel like I have lost my son for good not to mention my grandsons and all I have ever done is try to be supportive. XX
:-(
Don't be too hard on yourself about the wine - you obviously need it to help soothe your anxiety. That said, it would be a good idea to try and swap it with other activities. I know you won't feel like this right now but why not start a new evening activity? A dance or keep fit class would be excellent. Or just make sure you book some time out with friends - having other interests and being busy will help you put things into perspective. If that fails, try chocolate instead! Works for me :-)
You're right that talking and crying endlessly is not ideal so maybe make a decision to only do that at certain times so you could say you won't do it tonight but you will do it between 2pm and 4pm tomorrow! Or similar. When you are just going round in circles theres a limit to the benefit gained.
I would really rally all the friends you have. Even just aquantainces. You don't have to have deep and meaningfuls with them just some distraction to talk about other people or do other things. If you are busier your daughter may feel you are coping better and if you are out a lot it will limit the time she can bend your ear!
Chin up and good luck at the counsellor.
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Thank you so much GEM for your sound advice, you are a very wise lady. As from tomorrow I am going to try and look on it as the first day of the rest of my life and be a bit more positive. I am deeply worried about my son, one thing he said to me that concerns me is when he went under the general anesthetic (first time as he has never been in hospital before) he said it was a lovely feeling and he felt so chilled out. That tells me he is under terrific stress and the feeling was an escape. I am also concerned about the fear he seems to have for her, bearing in mind that she blamed me and my daughter for ruining their marriage. I worry about the tension and stress he is feeling as I know she is controlling him and I am positive she stopped him coming to see me yesterday.
Thank you again for all your comforting advice. XX
Hi Very Upset, glad to hear that you have reached out and made those first steps at trying to reconcile your relationship with Dil, again GoodEnoughMum has given you some great food for thought.
The ball is know in Dil's court and it is just a case of waiting to see if and how she replies to your message.
Do take care of yourself xx
I still have not had a reply from DIL, I really don't think I will either. My ex hubby had a text from DIL last night and said that he hasnt been to see the children for 6 weeks, she kept saying how selfish our family is and she will not have MY children treated like that, the word MY was emphasied 3 times. She is obviously making it clear who is in charge. I really think my son has a great fear of her. I just don't think I can do anything else, I have tried but I am feeling so low.
Hi very upset
Sorry to hear you have had no joy yet. I wonder if it might be worth looking into what mediation is available in your area?
In terms of your son, he is under a great deal of stress I agree. His boundaries are not great and she is a very toxic person so he will be taking on a lot of her emotional baggage.
Because you have got in her firing line you are now drawn into DILs vortex and because all the boundaries in that house are blurred you are being brought into something that is nothing to do with you.
Mediation promotes boundaries because there is someone impartial there. There will be truth to what she is saying (for example, there most likely are times when people in your family have been selfish or there may be people within your family more selfish than others) however, a mediator can help clarify the truth from the propaganda.
How did the counselling go?
Love G
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Hi Gem
Thank you so much for your reply. I have just finished speaking to the counsellor, it was basically a review to start with, she has recommended more in depth counselling and then cognitive therapy which may help me to cope a bit better. I have another appointment in 2 weeks time. Feel such a weak person at the moment for not dealing with this very well.
I certainly did get in the firing line, wish I hadn't but too late now.
I am very worried about the pressure and stress my son is under, I wish I could help him but accept that I can't. He says that things are much better now but I don't believe that they have a healthy relationship. My daughter seems to be quite happy and definetely doesn't want to have any involvement with them so that is something I will have to accept.
I am not sure about mediation in my area, it may be something I can look into later on.
XXX
Hi Very Upset, it is good to hear that this initial review has resulted in a recommendation for in depth counselling and then cognitive therapy. How did you find it talking about your personal stuff? How did you take to the counsellor?
Do not berate yourself, nobody has all the answers all of the time and this certainly doesn't make someone weak. The fact that you are reaching out and seeking answers, shows that you have a lot of inner strength and won't just let things lie.
You are on a huge learning curve at the moment, learning to let go of your son whilst also standing by as he makes mistakes. Learning how to work with a difficult person. Learning how to keep an emotional distance when your daughter makes suggestions you disagree with. The best thing you can do right now, is be kind to yourself, believe that you know the answers that best suit you are within you.
Is your current partner being supportive with this situation?
Hi Anna
Thank you for your comment which I found really comforting, in fact the advice on this forum has certainly helped me with trying to see my way through a difficult time.
The counsellor was lovely and I found it quite easy to talk to her, I have another session with her in 2 weeks time after which I will be referred for counselling.
My partner is supportive but unfortunately men don't tend to see things in the same way as us females, he says I should let it go and leave them to get on with things and to try and enjoy my life. In some ways he is right, but men do not have that maternal instinct so don't tend to see things in the same way.
It is my youngest grandson's first birthday today and I am sad that I won't see him, I think my ex hubby is going round there tonight with presents but is a bit wary as to what response he may get.
I will try and keep going but it is difficult.
XX
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Hi Very Upset, do you have a present for your youngest grandson? Have you contacting your DiL to ask when it suits her best for you to drop it round?
Yes my ex hubby and myself went 50/50 on a present and card and it is signed from both of us, he is taking it there later. We did not think it a good idea at this stage for me to go as well, (we have been divorced for many years and have stayed the best of friends)bearing in mind she has not replied to my message so I really don't know what her reaction will be and really don't think I can cope with the possibility of a tirade of abuse from her. When I suggested to my son (at the weekend) that I come round he tried to put me off, so I have got the message and will wait until I am invited or if I am invited! I can only keep everything crossed at this stage. X
Well ex hubby took birthday presents round but had a frosty reception. Both my son and ex share the same love of Spurs football team, and he asked DIL, is son watching Spurs tonight, no was the answer he is not. My poor son, I am so worried about the way he is controlled, it is not fair, ex said he doesn't seem happy. I feel so helpless and wish there was something I could do but I know it is hopeless.
Hi Very Upset, I think that you may be better supported from an organisation such as Grannynet, Grandparents Association or Grandparents plus.
I am afraid we are only funded to support single parents with majority care and however much I would like to enter into dialogue with you and offer the support that you need, it is not within my job remit. Do click on any of the links above, some of the websites have forums, some have a telephone helpline. Please know that you are not alone with your fears for your son, or the worry of not being allowed contact with your grandchildren.
Best of Luck.
Thank you Anna I totally understand, also thank you to GEM and Louise, the advice you have given me on here has been brilliant and has helped me through a difficult time.
I may not need the links above as my son is staying with me at the moment having left his wife last night, her decision. I may get to see the boys soon unless of course he goes back to her which could be a possibility. He is heartbroken. He is convinced she is having an affair which she has completely denied. We will just have to see how things work out.
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Hi Very Upset
I just wanted to say best of luck with everything. I hope your son can get through this and that everyone keeps the children's best interests at heart.
I will be keeping everything crossed for you.
Gem
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MESSAGE FROM MODERATOR: Gem, your post has been inserted into this thread
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Hello very upset, I have edited out your real name as we keep things anonymous here for your privacy
This is a site funded for people bringing up children on their own and as such, we are quite limited in the help we can give you. However, I will try to give you some ideas.
As a grandparent I am sure you are aware that you have no "legal rights" to see the children (I have seen grandparents spend thousands on court cases, not always successful) It sounds as if your DIL is seeking to punish you and your son by witholding contact with the children. Hopefully this is a temporary thing. I totally understand why you did not want to go and undertake the childcare that day, you were stuck in the middle of everything.
Sadly, I think the best you can do is let the dust settle, and suggest to your son that he persuades his wife to come with him to counselling eg at Relate. If in the end their marriage is over, you would see the children during your son's time with them. It's very hard to feel that you are one step removed from everything when you want to sort things out but unfortunately that is what must happen (It's a really tough call when our children are grown up and we can't "fix" things for them)
You can seek to build some bridges with DIL before long....I am sure she will be glad enough of a babysitter soon. Don't be drawn in to the dispute between your daughter and her, though.
Sorry that we cannot give you ongoing support because of our funding specifications but I hope this has been of some help to you. Good luck and I hope things settle down for you and the family.