tiredmum
DoppleMe

Hi

  Thought I would share this with you.

Before I had my nighmare day yesterday I had been doing some research into childcare, and the discrimination against the children of lone parents.

Long story short this led to a very interesting conversation with a really nice guy from CPAG, he said that they are reluctant to go to court on discrimination grounds although they are there as the Government have a clause in the welfare reform act 2009 whereby if such a case were brought to court,they can in theory make every parent of every child in this country sign on as available for work.

My view was bring it on as there would be choas at the job centres and public opinion would be quite the reverse of what it is at present, in other words as it doesn`t currently interfere with their lives the are happy to ignore the plight of many many lone parents who are worried sick about where their child will go.

What he did ask me to do was to inform everyone that they are looking at an harrassment challenge against the Government, in order to do this they need as many people as possible to help them.

If your jsa is stopped for any reason,or sanctions are used against you, you must appeal immediately on a form called a GL24, if this is then refused you must take it to the upper tribuneral at which point CPAG would be happy to not only hear from people to would help.

Also if when you go to sign on you feel in anyway harrassed or victimised or pressured into aggreeing to things that you know will not work then again CPAG need to know.

Also if they are telling you to go on some kind of training, it is more than reasonable to ask, why they want you to go on the training, if it is simply to make you do something rather than a constructive way to help you find a suitable job then again this can be considered as harrassment

Posted on: October 9, 2010 - 7:45pm
Bubblegum
DoppleMe

Thanx for that.

My daughter will be seven next August and I don't want to go back to work, not yet, I don't want my children being bounced from crèche to crèche or with child minders, I have in my mind the age fourteen when I feel I will feel comfortable about letting them be left on there own, maybe this is unreasonable or unrealistic but it's from my own experience as a child, as it was around that age that I started to be left to go to and from school on my own, despite the fact that I didn't and used the opportunity to play truant.

My Lone parent adviser has already referred me to Genesis which is an organisation that helps lone parents back into the 'job market', I don't know if it is local or not but the fact that my lone parent adviser referred me to them without even asking me has irked me some what, I suspect it was because I have my six monthly interview in a week or two and she felt she had to look like she was doing something on my file which has remained the same for the last five years, as in I go in they give me some A4 print outs, refund my bus fair, I sign some parers and then I go again.

I never feel harassed at the job centrer, I just feel like I'm playing a part in a poorly scripted pantomime full of crap actors, or maybe a Ken Loach film full of bizarre and interesting working class characters as viewed by the educated middle classes.

I had a fruitless half hour interview with them (Genesis) at a local café last week and now they have gone off to look into what courses I could be put on, funniest of which is ECDL which I have done and past twice already, I didn't tell them that as it's all a bloody game and I'm not about to help them, and besides they were full of such happy enthusiasm I didn't want to burst their little bubble.

I did get free coffee and toast though.

: )

Posted on: October 9, 2010 - 10:15pm

tiredmum
DoppleMe

Hi I know exactly how you feel, below is a copy of the email I recently sent to CPAG, their head of policy was/is going to look at it, probably wont go anywhere but I feel better for having tried.

I am using myself as the guide for you in this as I know exactly how it feels to be me, however there are lots of very worried lone parents out there who are frightened and will not speak up for fear of reprisal not only from the job centres but from the public at large, they would though stand behind me 100%.

 

I am a single parent of 5 children, 2 have left home, 2 are teen girls, 16,17 and I have a 9 year old son, my girls are at college full time from Sept and my son in junior school.

 

I recently attended my lone parent appt and have been told that from the 3rd of Dec 2010 I will be required to sign on for job seekers as does any single parent with a child over the age of 7, this being reduced to 5, I believe from next year.

 

I asked how I could sign on as available for work when there is no childcare provision in our area at all, and was told that thousands of others manage.

I have no family at all, having been disowned for having black children some 16 years ago so cannot rely on extended family support for childcare.

 

I do not want you or anyone else to believe that I am a lazy benefit scrounger, I am not.

I have worked in the past and have whilst on benefits always done good within my community and sometimes a lot further afield as a means of giving something back.

 

The reason I would like to mount a legal challenge against the DWP to these unfair changes is that I believe that it discriminates against the children of single parents in a way that is detrimantal to their well being.

If I was a 2 parent family I would not be put in the position of having to sign on once a fortnight even though I would still be entitled to claim working and child tax credits if the family fell within the criteria for claiming.

I accept that lots of 2 parent families do choose to both work but you usually find that one has a main job and the other parent will work say a twilight shift once the other parent is home to care for the children.

 

There is no provision for childcare at present and if we are to believe what we read, the budget that has just gone will put pay to any after school clubs/breakfast clubs being provided.

If they were to be provided and I stress on the if, with 13 weeks school holidays a year by definintion a child of a single parent will be forced to go into some form of childcare within the school holidays, I believe this goes against their human rights to family life and also may well go against the rights to have the same amount of time away from school as their peers.

I also believe that it goes against the UN convention which was ratified in 1991 and although it hasn`t been fully adopted can be brought to bear in court proceedings.

Articles 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, 26, 27, 31.

 

If the after school provision was in place, what happens lets say if a high school child votes with their feet and refuses to stay, the parent is at work thinking their child is perfectly safe, the teachers/helpers are powerless to prevent the child from leaving, who is then responsible if a child has an accident?

This I think is a very grey area and not one that has been looked at in enough detail, certainly job centre staff can offer no clarity at all.

 

There is also little/no saving of costs to the tax payer for putting children of single parents at risk, if you take into account the working tax credits and the child tax credits, then the childcare costs if there were in fact any childcare the bill can in fact be higher and more of a burden to the tax payer than it would be having the single parent, parent their child.

 

I am in no way advocating that single parents should be allowed to sit at home and do nothing, but there are many many ways in which the culture of something for nothing can and should be addressed without the need to stigmatise the children in any way at all.

 

I am also fully supportive of any parent single or otherwise who can manage to find good and reliable childcare and then choose to go out to work.

 

The children of single parents are being victimised and discriminated against when they have done nothing wrong at all and in 99.9% of cases neither has their parent.

 

I guess the reverse arguement would be to make every parent of every child who doesn`t have a job sign on for job seekers once a fortnight? That would seem to be the only alternative to balance things so that single parent children are not discriminated against.

I was told earlier today that if a legal challenge was mounted from a discrimination point of view then the Government do indeed have a clause whereby they could invoke the rule that every parent has to work, I say go for the challenge and let the public decide, at present as it only deals with lone parents, people on disability, people are all too ready be so judgemental and label us all, I wonder if that would be the case if they were to walk a mile in my shoes?

 

I do hope that I have given you enough information to have a look at.

 

I am passionate in my belief that this is so grossly unjust to all single parents and their children, and I do realise that it would be a mammoth task to mount this challenge but I am ready to be the voice for everyone else.

 

I do hope that you will feel able to help not only myself and my son but every other single parent in the UK .

 

 

Poverty is not only measured in financial terms, it can be equally measured in emotional terms, something that seems to have been sadly forgotten by many in this country.

Posted on: October 9, 2010 - 11:56pm

tiredmum
DoppleMe

I have only taken out my name etc from the mail along with my address etcSmile

Posted on: October 9, 2010 - 11:57pm

Bubblegum
DoppleMe

Thank you again, this looming inevitability is something that worries me, I've been playing this cat and mouse game on and off with the DWP since I left school as I've been leading what some may call an alternative life style since, being in bands drifting from job to job and just travelling around enjoying my life.

I've had jobs and paid taxes in a few countries and it's never bothered me that some people chose not to work for what ever reason, we live in a society where it is now impossible not to be part of it, you can no longer go find a stake of land and live apart from it, drift from place to place, take work as and when, you are forced to be in it and that doesn't fit in with everyones life styles, you can no longer be a traveller there are so many laws put in place to stop it and monitor you, force you to fit in and 'contribute' to a society I personally don't want to be part of but have to or face being put in jail.

If I could I would give my children the life I had but I have to live a sedentary 'normal' life, get a job get a house, fill out a million forms with all my personal details, send my kids to crap schools to be pumped full of lies about religion and fitting in and being nice little sheep, get a job and pay taxes.

I've maybe gone off the topic a bit, but Thanx for that letter I shall use it as a template should I need to next year.

Please keep updating with how it goes for you.

Laughing

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 7:38am

Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Hello tired mum

Thank you for this. Then CPAG (Child Poverty Action Group) have no "power" as such but the man is quite right, there is power in numbers and if everyone who felt placed in this position contacted them, they would have hard evidence to support their assertions.

My own experience is that there is no viable care for secondary age children. Now, some children are perfectly Ok to be left alone by this age, but some are not, and yet more would WANT to be left alone and heaven knows what they would get up to. But it is not "just" a lack of childcare that is the problem, it is the lack of suitable jobs. In an ideal world, there would be plenty of 16-hour a week jobs, where parents could work during school hours and other jobs which were term time only for those with older children.

You're right about the financial side of things: they won't save very much money with this policy. It is all about statistics.....and single parents are a soft target. Unfortunately the tabloid press get hold of information about a few people from each "target group" and let's face it, within any group there will be so-called bad apples. However to make, say, Karen Matthews representative of single parents is in the same league as saying that Harold Shipman was a typical GP.

The other day the Tories were intimating that there was a possibility that with a married couple, if one was not working, they could transfer their tax allowance to the other working parent. This is "to allow one parent to stay at home with the children" So children of couples need to have a parent at home but children of single parents don't?

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 7:58am

sparklinglime
DoppleMe

I was a civil servant back in the 80s, and I don't think any of us were concerned about those who weren't working.  We were bothered by whether they were hostile or not.

Probably my parents were never upset by these things either, so nor am I.

I used to work 6 nights a week and a day and a half admin (where I am now, although its only a few hours now as they no longer have MOD contracts).  I gave up the nights when I got divorced.  I could have worked nights at the weekends, but The Git wouldn't have the children every weekend...

I did work full time for 22 years, but still let the media "get" to me.

At the end of the day, I believe it is right that lone parents are able to parent their children.  I'll look into CPAG see if there is something to register with.

 

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 11:07am

tiredmum
DoppleMe

Hi Bubblegum

                   I know what you mean about the inevitability of all of this and it has lots of us really worried.

I do agree that you should feel able to live your life your way, I do think travellers have had a very difficult time in recent years.

It must be difficult for you to feel forced to settle into a way of life that you dont want which in itself will be very stressful.

I am glad my letter is of use to you, I will certainly update you as and when I hear anythingSmile

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 7:13pm

warmley-single-...

Hi, Just reflecting a little on what louise said about childcare for secondary school children, I was at the Jobcenter recently and I am sure you have all had lone parent meetings with an advisor, how they work out how much better off you will be if working 16 hours, they make it sound wonderful but it seldom is to people I have spoken to, anyway during the conversation the lady mentioned childcare, then she said "will you be needing childcare for your eldest"? (he is nearly 15) so I said "What is the law on leaving them alone"? she said "actually there is no specific law, if you feel he is trustworthy enough to be left alone then it is down to you" He is sensible and I trust him 100% but I do worry about the safety aspects like fires and anything else that could go wrong(but thats me) I would never forgive myself if anything went wrong while I was not there. I would love to be able to have a Job within School hours or just a 'Job', but I have found it difficult, as most employers dont even get back to you most of the time, but I suppose it speaks volumes about how some companys are today.

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 8:40pm

tiredmum
DoppleMe

Hi

  Yes you are right about there being no specific laws on leaving older children but I totally agree with you that it is very worrying.

No dount whatsoever we will begin to read about the upsurge in antisocial behaviour all being down to lone parents leaving their children while they go to work.

I really do believe that we are damned if we do and damned if we dont, we cant win no matter what we do.

I am dreading going to my interview on the 8th November, the guy who its with was really nasty last time, everytime I challenged something he said, he just told me I was being silly and that thousands of others manage, well I am not thousands of others I am me an individual and we all have problems/difficulties that are unique to ourselves.

In the end he told me he would not discuss anything at all with me that I had asked him, I needed to do as I was told as it was the Governments policy and I need to comply or I will not get any money and that my housing benifit will be cancelled and I would be homeless.

I have been homeless once 17 years ago with 2 young children and it was awful so I feel that I am being bullied into having to agree and do as I am told.

I have spent years doing that already and really dont want to go back there Frown

 

Posted on: October 10, 2010 - 9:46pm

Bubblegum
DoppleMe

Tiredmum! just go along with them be nice and smile and go ohh that looks nice when they show you stuff, they are just doing their job, filling in boxes on your file so they can close it and move on to the next and ultimately go home, it's highly unlikely that he thinks about you after you have gone unless you have long legs blond hair and large breasts.

There aren't actually many jobs anyway and it's easy not to get the ones that there are, do a google search for 'how not to get a job' for some handy pointers and some funny stories too : )

In the job centre they are just doing their job, the worst thing you can do is get their back up, just play along, smile and act a bit simple.

:)

 

Posted on: October 11, 2010 - 5:49am

Louise
Parenting specialist DoppleMe

Bubblegum you make me laugh so much and you are right: playing their game is a very specific technique. One side of me feels we should protest, we should NOT just go along with the "game" and yet if the alternative is homelessness then.......Actually I was shocked that this man threatened you like this, tired mum, and if it happens again, is it possible for you to ask for it in writing, and say you want to understand the consequences? Bet you he wouldn't give you that! If it is any consolation, it sounds to me as if you got under his skin lol, or he would not have behaved like that. In truth, there are very few jobs about so you're probably batting on a fairly safe wicket.

The comment about "damned if we do and damned if we don't" is one I have made before. I do so agree.

Posted on: October 11, 2010 - 8:01am

tiredmum
DoppleMe

Hi bubblegum, Louise

                              Thank you for your replies.

I know about the go along with it idea, problem is I am so rubbish at it!!!!!!!

I have to ask questions, cant help myself, I dont do it to wind anyone up, I do is because I want the answer to whatever it is I have asked, biggest problem is they dont usually have the answers which is why they dont like being asked the questions.Smile

If theis guy is the same with me as he was last time, I am going to ask for his manager and as you Louise suggested that they put it in writing for me.

I have my positive head on today, no doubt that will slip as the 8th Nov loomsSmile

Posted on: October 12, 2010 - 10:22am

hazeleyes
DoppleMe

Hi tiredmum. You do have the right to change your advisor. This is something I did, as I wasn't happy with the previous one. She sat there looking totally bored really. You are right though, they don't like lots of questions, I think this causes them to go into a flap, because they haven't got the answers.

Bubblegum, your post made me laugh. Had just spent 20 mins trying to cancel hospital appointment, so wasn't in the best of moods Smile

Posted on: October 12, 2010 - 12:20pm